[MUD-Dev] Re: Simulation (Was Re: Room descriptions)

["Ola Fosheim Grøstad" <olag#ifi,uio.no>]

Koster, Raph wrote:
> Boulderdash, Lemmings, and Worms simulate very specific and narrow
> things, some of which are not found in reality.

Which pretty much describes most MUDs, probably UO as well.

> Elite and Populous are
> broader, but still focus on narrower areas which would be merely one
> aspect of the whole sim in a world sim mud.

Hmm... From what I've seen most MUD activities isn't all that tightly
coupled.
(i.e.. pretty independent, with a rather weak link to each other)

> > Btw, realism wasn't an issue in those games. If destruction
> > is more fun than building => let the system (re)build.
> 
> Which breaks the sim in the case of a persistent game, generally
> speaking.

Heavens NO!!! (Take a look at mother Nature)

> > Your problem probably is in creating a medieval simulation. That's a
> > dramatic problem, not a simulation problem? Maybe that is a
> > problem local to
> > UO and not a general MUD problem?
> 
> Rather, I'd say it's relative to simulating a world, and not merely a
> subsystem within said world. All your examples listed are not full world
> sims (which is the assumption I made when discussing simulationist muds,
> since that's what gets discussed here most often).

I think we either will have to agree on disagreeing or you'll have to define
the term "full world sims". Are you talking about a simulation that tries to
recreate a situation with a given precision or are you talking about an
evolutionary simulation? These two types of simulation are quite different.
In the first, you have a "prototypical" goal of what you want to see
simulated (realism).  In the second you provide the initial condition, a set
of rules (laws of nature) and appreciate the result in it's own right.

A medieval simulation is clearly about realism.  The trouble here is that
"medieval" is about culture (how people reason). You cannot hardcode culture
into a simulation in which humans play a major role.  Thus you can only hope
to inspire (invoke whatever memories they have from reading history etc) the
players to form a medieval culture. Thus a dramatic problem.

You don't need the fluff of M59 or UO if you simply want to create a
selfsustained fully simulated world. (a "laws of nature" approach (as in
boulderdash) is what I would call fully simulated) A minimalist boulderdash
approach would probably be far more effective.
--
Ola